Modern knockout power supply - please help.
Grossfater Muller 16-09-2008 13:16
Friends asked to find out - they brought a cartridge for examination, obviously a knockout ammunition, but they did not have the materials.
Perhaps there are experts here...
diameter 37.5
flange 45.5
height 34.8
The sleeve is black plastic with a rim, the capsule is a bullet, a cardboard wad with the inscription “1100 kgf”, smokeless gunpowder, the inscription on the bottom is “EZ 38”.
I would like to know the labeling and scope of application.
Thank you in advance.
wasserfall 19-09-2008 01:05
looks like a hefty rifle casing, about 15cm long, 30-40mm in diameter, cardboard wad, the casing itself is also cardboard, painted red, the tray has a metal rim, the capsule is chewed. Completely, without gaps, filled with strips of smokeless powder gunpowder 100 mm long (composition: falcon). This is unlikely to be hunting ammunition.
Grossfater Muller 19-09-2008 15:24
If it weren’t for the size, I would say that it’s a knockout charge for a mortar.
For an 82mm knockout, this is exactly what it looks like, only sized for 12 gauge.
Maybe for larger calibers, huh?
wasserfall 19-09-2008 16:44
I'm confused by the hunting powder inside. Is Sokol used by the military? The charge seemed to have been brought from the RHK.
Chatterbox 19-09-2008 19:00
quote: I'm confused by the hunting powder inside. Is Sokol used by the military? The charge seemed to have been brought from the RHK.
Bomb-tech 21-09-2008 22:04
quote: Originally posted by Chatterbox:
Used. For blank cartridges, expelling and transfer charges.
I have never seen "Falcon" in army products. For what you listed (except for blanks), various brands of black powder are used, and “Falcon” is smokeless single-base powder (nitrocellulose). By the way, wasserfall wrote “in composition - falcon”.
In general, according to the description, the charge is really similar to the expelling charge for a mortar mine - they are loaded with belt gunpowder. I will more definitely try to unsubscribe tomorrow, incl. and about the first post.
Questions for wasserfall:
- if it’s not a secret, how detailed was the composition of the gunpowder determined?
- what is RHC - is it not the Rezhevsk chemical plant?
Gray66 22-09-2008 11:16
quote: I have never seen "Falcon" in army products.
Blank cartridges 7.62x54 - used by Sokol. In appearance, 1 in 1. In the early 90s, I unloaded a couple of boxes of such cartridges and used gunpowder when loading 12-gauge cartridges. The properties were slightly weaker than hunting, so I had to increase the weight in 12 gauge by 0.2g. Perhaps some kind of “preservative” is used in the composition.
wasserfall 27-09-2008 01:16
RHC - Roshal Chemical Plant.
Sokol was made there. On the cans with it at the bottom, under the name it is also written РХ. The charge was brought straight from the gunpowder factory. The gunpowder in the cartridge looked like Sokol. My parents (who once worked at the Russian Chemical Chemical Plant), specialists in high-molecular compounds, confirmed my conclusion. I can attach a photo of the records, it seems to be left somewhere.
wasserfall 27-09-2008 01:19
The properties were slightly weaker than hunting, so I had to increase the weight in 12 gauge by 0.2g. Perhaps some kind of “preservative” is used in the composition.
Sokol is not very consistent from batch to batch; different weights are sometimes written on different cans (for 12 gauge, 2.0 or 2.3).
varban 27-09-2008 16:13
quote: Originally posted by Gray66:
Blank cartridges 7.62x54 - used by Sokol. In appearance, 1 in 1. In the early 90s, I unloaded a couple of boxes of such cartridges and used gunpowder when loading 12-gauge cartridges. The properties were slightly weaker than hunting, so I had to increase the weight in 12 gauge by 0.2g. Perhaps some kind of “preservative” is used in the composition.
Gunpowder KhPL P-80. X - to blank cartridges, Pl - lamellar, P - porous, 80 - 80 parts of potassium nitrate were added to 100 parts of the pyroxylin mixture, which was then washed out of the grains. Thus, P-80 means that the powder grain is approximately 40% porous.
Sokol is about the same, only it is made from higher-nitrogen pyroxylin.
Thus, gunpowder from unloaded blank cartridges mod. 30 year is more suitable for heavy shells, around 40 grams of shot. There won’t be much speed, but the pressure won’t jump and the shoulder will remain intact.
varban 27-09-2008 16:16
quote: Originally posted by wasserfall:
I’ll post here too, the question is similar. They brought strange ammunition (now discarded):
looks like a hefty rifle casing, about 15cm long, 30-40mm in diameter, cardboard wad, the casing itself is also cardboard, painted red, the tray has a metal rim, the capsule is chewed. Completely, without gaps, filled with strips of smokeless powder gunpowder 100 mm long (composition: falcon). This is unlikely to be hunting ammunition.
The main charge for a 120 mm mine.
Gunpowder - NBL-34. Nothing in common with Sokol - it is a high-energy dense ballistite of the simplest composition: colloxylin, nitroglycerin, centralite, oil. Only suitable for mortars
wasserfall 27-09-2008 17:36
nothing to do with Falcon
Do they look similar?
Gray66 28-09-2008 22:44
The one that I had to shake out of blank machine-gun cartridges one after another, even the smell is the same.
In 5.45 caliber blank cartridges, those with a plastic bullet, it looks very similar to Bars, but I haven’t tried shooting it from a gun.
wasserfall 28-09-2008 23:59
The cartridge case is filled with RX gunpowder; NBL-34 was not produced there.
Bomb-tech 29-09-2008 17:40
quote: The main charge for a 120 mm mine.
Gunpowder - NBL-34. Nothing in common with Sokol - it is a high-energy dense ballistite of the simplest composition: colloxylin, nitroglycerin, centralite, oil. Only suitable for mortars
Exactly.
"Falcon" is nitrocellulose powder, it does not contain nitroglycerin. The gunpowder in the main charge for the 120 mm mine is belt-shaped, light yellow-brown in color, and “Falcon”, for those who haven’t seen it, has grain in the form of rectangular plates, measuring somewhere up to 2x2 mm, gray-green in color.
varban 30-09-2008 01:33
> Do they look similar?
No, they are not similar. NBL is belt powder.
More or less similar to Sokol NBPl - flake gunpowder of the same composition. If it is also graphite, then in the dark you can confuse
Lamellar NB has strictly planar plates.
Both of them have plates that are more diamond-shaped than square.
The most important thing is that NB is almost transparent gunpowder with a yellowish[-brown] tint.
> The cartridge case is filled with RX gunpowder; NBL-34 was not produced there
The fact that NB was not produced at the Roshal plant is certain, since the plant does not produce nitroether and was never planned to do so.
wasserfall 02-10-2008 02:02
quote: Originally posted by varban:
This is serious - since Sokol is a pyroxylin (solvent-based) gunpowder, the plates after curing, soaking and drying turn out to be somewhat... uh... curly
I’ve never noticed anything like this with it... At least, this effect is absent at the manufacturer’s factory.
The gunpowder in the charge does not seem to be graphitized.
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A specified quantity of an explosive substance (RDX, TNT, other condensed explosives, solid rocket fuel, nuclear fuel), which is usually supplied with either an explosion initiator or an ignition agent.
Charges are divided into exploding, propelling, demolition, explosive, rocket solid fuel and nuclear.
Explosive charge- a certain amount of gunpowder that is placed
in the case of propaganda, incendiary, cluster, illumination and other ejectable ammunition, equipped in such a way that the case remains without destruction. It can also be placed in a jumping engineering mine - to throw it to a certain required height.
Demining charge- the explosive charge, which can be elongated, flat or concentrated in shape, is structurally combined with the explosive device. A charge of this type can be produced directly at the explosion site, either from liquid explosives or by creating volumetric detonating mixtures. A mine clearance charge is used to make explosive passages in minefields.
Contact charge- a demolition charge, the shape can be concentrated, elongated, flat or figured. It is so called because it is installed so that one or both sides of it are in direct contact with the object that it is intended to destroy.
Shaped charge- a demolition charge that has a special cumulative recess with a metal lining. In its shape, a charge of this type can be ring-shaped, concentrated and elongated. The ring shaped charge is used to break steel ropes (cables) and rods. A concentrated shaped charge has a conical, parabolic or hemispherical recess and is widely used for punching holes of various sizes in any obstacles.
An elongated shaped charge can have an acute-angled, rectangular or semi-cylindrical shaped recess and is used both for cutting steel and reinforced concrete structures and for forming holes in them along a given contour.
Propellant charge- a weight of gunpowder used to eject an artillery shell (mine bullet) from the bore of a weapon at an initially specified speed.
Propelling charges are placed in or caps; they can be constant or variable - if it is necessary to change the initial speed of the projectile, the firing range, or the nature of the flight path. They are also divided into combat, single and special purpose.
Non-contact charge- a demolition charge that is attached to an object intended to be destroyed without direct contact with it. Typically used for the destruction or demolition of wooden, concrete and reinforced concrete bridges and other objects when there is little or no time to establish contact charges.
Flat charge- a demolition charge in the form of a plate, which consists of an explosive substance. The length and width of this layer are many times greater than its thickness. Paste-like, elastic or liquid explosives are used to make the charge. The charge is used to make passages in minefields.
Demolition charge - a portion of an explosive prepared in a certain way to carry out an explosion; type of ammunition related to engineering.
Demolition charge has a shell, special sockets used to accommodate explosive means, devices for transportation and devices for attaching the charge to objects. In its shape, the explosive charge can be concentrated, flat, annular, elongated and figured.
According to installation on objects intended for destruction, charges are divided into contact and non-contact, and according to the nature of the impact on the object - high-explosive or cumulative. The troops are supplied from industry in finished form, but can be manufactured locally if necessary.
Bursting charge- a high explosive that is placed directly in the body of a projectile - a mine, torpedo or aerial bomb. The explosive charge is designed to carry out such an explosion, as a result of which the ammunition body will be destroyed, a shock wave will arise, fragments will be formed, and toxic substances or biological agents will be sprayed.
Rocket solid propellant charge represents one or more (blocks) made of solid rocket fuel, placed directly in the chamber of the rocket engine. When the bombs burn, jet thrust occurs as a result of the resulting gases flowing through the engine nozzle.
Concentrated charge- a demolition charge whose length, height and width are approximately equal. Typical examples of concentrated charges are cubic and spherical charges. Charges of other shapes can be included among them, provided that their length does not exceed the smallest transverse dimension by more than 5 times. Concentrated charges are used to carry out blasting operations in air, water and soil.
