Duma Vasily Mikhailovich is doing now. Without making public complaints about his work

Victor Zaitsev

“And the Cossack is sent!” (Folk wisdom)

“And also, good Bad Guy, we award you with our most important order - the White Cross of the Traitor!” (Bourgeois)

Reference:

Duma Vasily Mikhailovich- Member of the Federation Council from the Kostroma Region, Deputy Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on natural resources and security environment, member of the Federation Council commission for interaction with the Accounts Chamber Russian Federation, Doctor of Economic Sciences, full member of the Academy of Mining Sciences of the Russian Federation, since April 2005 - head of the “Organization of Ukrainians of Russia” and the “Federal National-Cultural Autonomy of Ukrainians of Russia”.

Citizenship: in Russia – a citizen of the Russian Federation, in Ukraine – a citizen of Ukraine. In Russia, for obvious reasons, he prefers not to mention his “second citizenship”.

Nationality: Ukrainian (but practically does not speak native language).

Religion: depending on the situation: in Russia he pretends to be Orthodox, in Ukraine or Rome he pretends to be a Greek Catholic (“Uniate”).

Awarded: state awards of the Russian Federation - “Order of Friendship”, medals “For the development of subsoil and the development of the oil complex of Siberia”, “In memory of the 850th anniversary of Moscow”. Awards of the Russian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate: “Order of St. Sergei of Radonezh”, Order of “Reverend Prince Daniel of Moscow”. Awards of public organizations: Order “For Honor and Valor”. Awards of Ukraine: Order of Merit, II, III degrees.

Biography: Born on June 20, 1954 in the village of Kalinino, Emelyanovsky district, Krasnodar region. Graduated from the Lvov Construction College and the Tyumen Industrial Institute (specializing in “Construction of gas pipelines, gas storage facilities and oil depots”). Since 1994 he worked at the Ministry of Fuel and Energy of the Russian Federation, at the same time being the president of the Uralnefteserviz company. Since 1996 - President of the Lukoil-Transnefteproduct company, since 1998 - President of the Slavneft OJSC company, in 2001-2005 - Chairman of the Board of Directors of CB Grand Bank. In 1999, he unsuccessfully ran for deputy of the State Duma of the Russian Federation from the Ivanovo region.

The essence of the problem:

Until recently, Vasily Mikhailovich Duma was little different from any other “new Russian” “model of the 90s”. You look at him more closely and you can immediately see how much the crimson jacket and gold chain are missing! And the head of the Kostroma Russian diocese Orthodox Church I still can’t remember Vasily Mikhailovich’s visit in September 2005 without shuddering. The “clear” senator then talked with the Bishop, “quite Orthodox” with his feet on the table (I wonder if he behaved the same way at a reception with the Pope in 2000?).

Having briefly touched on Vasily Mikhailovich’s “Orthodoxy,” which was awarded high church awards, we cannot help but recall his obscene language, which developed into threats of physical violence, regarding the installation at the same time - in September 2005 - during the All-Russian Short Film Festival "Family of Russia" in the city of Galich, Kostroma region, on Mount Balchuk, an Orthodox “Worship Cross”, symbolizing the memory of descendants about the exploits of their ancestors. It is difficult to say what caused such a sharp reaction from the dignitary guest - whether it was the amount of alcohol he drank, the awakened memory of his own affiliation with the Greek Catholic Church, or simply insufficiently vigorous praise of the “patron of the arts” from the organizers (the Duma partially financed the festival).

In general, we can say that Vasily Duma has a “purely classical” biography for his category: work at the oil complex, timely and successful “privatization” of its “piece”, expedient combination of a government post in the Ministry of Fuel and Energy with “core” commercial activities, and further (in in order to preserve “earned by back-breaking labor”) - “going into politics.”

But then the “nuances,” as they say, begin. Remembering his ethnic origin, Vasily Mikhailovich, just in case, obtained a second citizenship (it was not prohibited then). He remains in this state to this day, hoping that the recently adopted law prohibiting staying on government positions and in the federal legislative bodies of various kinds of “doubles” “does not have retroactive effect.” And, presumably, he hopes that the fact that he has a passport with a “trident” is not known to anyone.

Well, okay, God be with him, in the end, with “dual citizenship”! Until recently, how many people sat in power among us who now live comfortably somewhere in London or Tel Aviv? The question is different - which state does Vasily Mikhailovich actually consider himself a citizen of? And, in fact, state interests Which country does he defend in the Russian Federation Council?

It would seem that the answer to this question does not pose a problem. After all, V. Duma was delegated to the Federation Council from the very Russian outback - from the abandoned and impoverished Kostroma region, which does not have any raw materials. And it is precisely the development of this region that Vasily Mikhailovich should be daily and tirelessly concerned about. And so it seems - V. Duma thinks day and night about how to revive his native Kostroma land, establish its almost dead industry and agriculture, which is dying.

Reality, however, is far from such dreams. Vasily Mikhailovich visits Kostroma less often than in Ukraine or at his villa, furnished with garish bad taste, in France (in Nice), although, it should be noted, these rare visits of his to his “small Motherland” seem too burdensome to Kostroma residents. Well, of course, there is Governor V. Shershunov, whose election campaign Vasily Mikhailovich actively financed.

But Vasily Mikhailovich is seriously concerned about the problems of “development of the Ukrainian diaspora” in Russia! From the very moment of his election in 2005 to the post of coordinator of the Council of ESD and NFCA UR, there is no event to which the senator would not provide his generous financial assistance - from the exhibition in memory of the “fighter for independence Stepan Bandera” in the “Library of Ukrainian Literature”, to the purchase and delivery to Russia of various kinds of literary “masterpieces” about the “exploits” of the SS division “Galicia”, propaganda materials of various Ukrainian nationalist organizations, hundreds of other books and brochures, the main content of which is a simple topic: “how the Muscovites oppressed the Ukrainian nation.”

But, since Vasily Mikhailovich himself has no time to deal with such trifles, for the “dirty work” he easily found a number of associates in Moscow - “lights of the development of Russian-Ukrainian friendship.” Here, for example, one of them is Vasily Mikhailovich’s deputy for ESD and FNKA UR, employee of the “Library of Ukrainian Literature” Yuriy Grigorievich Kononenko, whose ideology is best characterized by the “outstanding ethnographic discovery” that he voiced in May 2004 when communicating with visitors an exhibition held in the said library dedicated to the “125th anniversary of the birth of the great Ukrainian, outstanding political and cultural figure of Ukraine S. Petliura.” Among other not very “tolerant” remarks addressed to Russia, Pan Yuri noted: “The Chinese and blacks are much closer to each other than Ukrainians and Russians, Slavism is also a harmful ideology.”

However, the statements of Yuriy Kononenko, an outspoken nationalist and enemy of Russia “with experience”, the head of the Moscow cell of the international “Congress of Ukrainian Nationalists” (“KUN”), are at least logical - Pan Yuriy ( former employee Ukrainian Embassy in the Russian Federation), was and remains a citizen exclusively of Ukraine, without even trying to obtain Russian citizenship.

Another close assistant of the Duma is the co-chairman of the ESD and FNKA UR, Valery Fokovich Semenenko, known in Ukraine for his numerous journalistic opuses about “persecution and genocide of Ukrainians in Russia” (he prudently does not distribute them in the Russian Federation, since he is listed as a citizen - according to his passport).

One could go on for a long time to list Vasily Mikhailovich’s associates, as well as “competitors,” in the ways of “preserving and disseminating Ukrainian culture” among Russian citizens of Ukrainian nationality. Here is the leader of the “Ural Association of Ukrainians”, a member of the presidium of the “Ukrainian World Coordination Council” Stefan Grigorievich Panyak, and the co-chairman of the regional national cultural Ukrainian center of Bashkiria Vasily Yakovlevich Babenko, and a number of other Russian citizens who poorly hide their hatred and contempt for the country where they were born and raised. All of them are long-time regulars at various nationalist congresses and other gatherings regularly held in Ukraine, all claim to be “leaders of the Ukrainian national movement in Russia,” all are “fighters for the rights of the oppressed Ukrainian people,” and judging by their ambitions, Napoleon is no match for each good.

However, the problem is not even that in Moscow and in a number of Russian regions there are small circles of mentally unbalanced “informed Ukrainians” who imagine themselves as “leaders” and are absolutely unknown to the overwhelming majority of the multimillion-strong “oppressed” Ukrainian diaspora (if one can even speak of one - since the Ukrainians themselves in Russia have never felt like a “diaspora” - they are here in their homeland). The trouble is that in Ukraine and in the “far abroad countries” they are readily perceived as “fighters for the people’s happiness” and, accordingly, are financed. Moreover, the funds are allocated from the same source from which various “orange”, “opposition”, “democratic”, “lemon” (guilty, “national-Bolshevik”) parties, frontists, movements and other “human rights activists” are fed. Thus, “UR” and “FNKA UR”, led by Senator Vasily Mikhailovich Duma, quietly and logically took their place in a transparent and almost invisible, but really existing “network structure”, the ultimate goal of which is to split Russia along national borders.

"Stretch"? "Bare accusation"? No matter how it is! Back on September 23, 2005, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Boris Tarasyuk, in the presence of Ambassador Oleg Beloblotsky and the director of the Cultural Center of Ukraine at the Ukrainian Embassy in Moscow Vladimir Melnichenko (the organizer of the meeting), loudly called on the assembled “informed Ukrainians” (about 40 people, including Yu. Kononenko, V. Krikunenko, V. Skopenko, V. Semenenko - all from the “inner circle” of the V. Duma) “to spread the ideals of the “Orange Revolution” in Russia, to create for this purpose on the basis of public organizations of the Ukrainian diaspora certain “structures” and “propaganda points” and promised “financial assistance” from the Ukrainian government. At the same time, representatives of the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs promised to allocate $4 million in 2006 for the needs of such “development of the Ukrainian diaspora,” the distribution of which was entrusted to the leadership of “UR” and “FNKA UR”. Whether this money arrived and how it was distributed is a question for Vasily Mikhailovich. For example, regional leaders claim that they have not received a single cent.

At a meeting with Ukrainian President Yushchenko

Further more. As recently as August last year, Vasily Mikhailovich, together with Yu. Kononenko, V. Semenenko and a whole group of associates, took part in the “4th World Forum of Ukrainians” and he, along with his most trusted persons, was called to his home on August 17 in the village The new Bezradychs were briefed by Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko, who, as we know, is difficult to suspect of sympathizing with Russia. The official part, which consisted of collective photography and the distribution of various awards (Vasily Mikhailovich himself received the above-mentioned Order of Merit, 2nd degree), was only a screen for carrying out the main task - instructing those who arrived in the line of “promoting the democratization of Russia.” At the meeting, which, according to comments from the Ukrainian media, took place “in a warm, homely atmosphere” and “without ties,” Viktor Yushchenko announced to the Russian guests the allocation of significant funds from the Ukrainian budget - 21 million hryvnia to “support the development of the Ukrainian diaspora.”

Specific tasks were set in a narrower circle: to unite the Ukrainian diaspora, create as many organizations as possible and attract them to the movement in any form maximum amount immigrants from Ukraine, if possible, create in Russia political party, representing the interests of Ukrainians (read “orange” Ukraine). And, of course (where would we be without this!) – promoting the “democratization” of state power in the Russian Federation. (In what ways and in what form such “assistance” is carried out, we can assume using the example of Ukraine or Georgia).

Whether Vasily Mikhailovich was invited by his assistant Yuriy Kononenko during his stay in Kiev for a private conversation with his “old friend” - the former head of the Security Service of Ukraine Alexander Turchinov, we do not know for sure - Pan Yuriy would hardly have entrusted such “intimate” contacts even to his beloved boss.

So, whether Russian Senator Vasily Mikhailovich Duma wants it or not, he has already “virtually” taken his place in the ranks (in the language of some Western media) of “fighters against the emerging totalitarianism in Russia.” It’s just unclear – does he want this himself, has he made up his mind? It’s clear that the choice is difficult - after all, you have to choose according to several parameters at once - whether to engage in business or politics, live in Russia or Nice, and you also need to decide something with the choice of passports...

I would personally advise Vasily Mikhailovich to listen to the voice of his heart. After all, if “the infringement of the rights and persecution of Ukrainians burns the soul,” we must openly, as befits a man, I would even say a Cossack, to fight injustice. And resolutely reject the senatorial qualifications, Russian citizenship, that are tempting to “compliance”, profitable business and other unworthy things. Be brave, Vasily Mikhailovich! “Orange” Ukraine and “the whole free world” are looking at you! In France (where you have a residence permit) you may be given another order!

"Biography"

Education

Graduated from the Tyumen Industrial Institute with a degree in “Construction of gas and oil pipelines, gas storage facilities and oil depots”

Activity

"News"

International election observation

Member of the Federation Council from the Kostroma region Mikhail Kozlov was among the observers at the presidential elections in Kyrgyzstan. Members of the delegation visited polling stations in all regions of the country, and, as the participants themselves noted, without a pre-developed plan and coordination with the relevant authorities.

The task of the mission is to see with your own eyes how open, transparent and legitimate the presidential elections are. According to the senator, during all the days of work the observers were able to verify the high professionalism of the organizers of the election process.

A visiting meeting of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security is taking place in Kostroma

A visiting meeting of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security is being held today in the Kostroma Region.

The focus of the meeting, which took place in the regional administration, was on strengthening public safety, law and order and preventing terrorism. They especially talked about the “Safe City” project.

“The Kostroma region is among the leading constituent entities of the Russian Federation in the implementation of the Safe City hardware and software complex system,” emphasized Yevgeny Serebrennikov, Deputy Chairman of the Federation Council Committee on Defense and Security.

Russian region named the leader in alcohol-related deaths

The largest number of deaths from alcohol poisoning occurs in the Kirov and Yaroslavl regions, as well as in the Republic of Mari El. Rosstat reports this.

Thus, in the Kirov region, mortality from accidental alcohol poisoning was 16.7 cases per 100 thousand people, in Yaroslavl region and the Republic of Mari El, this figure was 16.3 cases and 16.2 cases, respectively.

The top five regions with the highest mortality rate from alcohol poisoning also included Arhangelsk region(15.7 cases) and Kostroma region (15.5). Rosstat data are provided for the period from January to August 2017.

Governor of the Kostroma Region Igor Slyunyaev terminated the powers of his representative in the Federation Council Vasily Duma ahead of schedule, without announcing reasons. The region notes that the senator practically did not appear in the region, thereby losing the confidence of the Kostroma governor. Mr. Duma in the Federation Council may be replaced by banker Nikolai Zhuravlev.

Governor of the Kostroma Region Igor Slyunyaev signed a decree on the early resignation of Vasily Duma, a representative in the Federation Council, his term in office expired in October 2012. And on next meeting The Kostroma Duma is expected to elect a new representative to the Federation Council on May 19. The governor's resolution does not specify the reasons for the senator's resignation. A year and a half ago, when Governor Igor Slyunyaev took office after tragic death his predecessor, the question of the senator’s resignation was not so pressing. “You know the region, keep working,” the governor said to his representative in the Federation Council. However, as it turned out later, the senator appeared in the region quite rarely. “There were no results for Kostroma from his activities,” says Andrei Ozerov, deputy of the Kostroma Regional Duma, leader of the local branch of A Just Russia. “He regularly reported to the deputies, but it was clear that this was his duty.” The fact that Igor Slyunyaev would probably recall Vasily Duma from the Federation Council began to be talked about in the region in March. “At first it was supposed to do everything quietly,” says a source in the Kostroma department “ United Russia“However, Vasily Mikhailovich did not want to leave; he had defenders in Moscow. And the governor had to do a lot of work.”

The regional administration also does not comment on the reasons for the recall of the senator, against whom no public complaints have ever been made. “It’s just that Igor Nikolaevich (Slyunyaev - Kommersant) and Vasily Mikhailovich (Duma - Kommersant) haven’t had any relationship for a long time, contact was lost between them,” notes Andrei Ozerov. “And now a new figure has simply appeared on the position of senator, closer to the governor.”

As noted in the region, the main contender for the vacant position is Nikolai Zhuravlev, chairman of the board of Sovcombank. He headed the local branch of United Russia since 2007 and was considered the main sponsor of Kostroma United Russia. However, in Last year There were persistent rumors in the region that he wanted to resign. “He’s just tired of paying for everything,” says a source in the regional branch of United Russia. “Besides, people haven’t recognized him in four years, he rarely appears in Kostroma, he lives in Moscow, and there are elections ahead. So it’s very correct for him to go to the Federation Council.”

At the same time, Ivan Korsun doubts that Nikolai Zhuravlev will be able to cope with the duties of a senator. “It seems to me that the region in the Federation Council needs a person of federal scale, with connections and opportunities,” argues a member of the United Russia faction. “If this is not there, then it is difficult to talk about any work for the region: the person simply will not have such opportunities " Let us recall that Vasily Duma has been a member of the upper house from the Kostroma region since May 2004. In 1997–1998, he was the head of a department of the Ministry of Fuel and Energy of the Russian Federation, in 1994–1996 - president of the Uralnefteservis company, and then president of the LUKOIL-Transnefteproduct and Slavneft companies. From 2001 to 2005, Vasily Duma headed the board of directors commercial bank"Grand Invest"

Kirill Rubankov, Kostroma; Dmitry Kozlov

Vitaly Portnikov: Today we invited a member of the Federation Council to the Moscow studio of Radio Liberty Federal Assembly Russia Vasily Mikhailovich Duma. Vasily Mikhailovich not only performs various duties as a member of the upper house of the Russian parliament, but he is also the chairman of the Association of Ukrainians of Russia, and heads the Council of the Federal National-Cultural Autonomy “Ukrainians of Russia”. And in this sense, we will, in fact, talk about what is happening today in the upper house, and we will talk about Russian-Ukrainian relations.

And there is just good news. After the visit of Secretary of the Russian Security Council Igor Ivanov to the Ukrainian capital, it became known that the date for the meeting of the presidents of the Russian Federation and Ukraine, Vladimir Putin and Viktor Yushchenko, had been determined. The presidents did not meet for quite some time.

And so I would like to ask you, Vasily Mikhailovich, is it possible to say today (and you see this as a member of parliament) that the Russian and Ukrainian authorities have begun to work institutionally, that the work at the commission level, which practically did not exist, has been restored long enough?

Vasily Duma

Vasily Duma: Almost two years. Unfortunately, it so happened that during the beginning of the so-called “orange” revolution and before today There are no parliamentary commissions working. And unfortunately - after all, Ukraine is our friendly country - presidents do not meet. And if you look at history, how we used to meet and solve some problems, today these meetings are quite rare.

Vitaly Portnikov: But now we can say, when it has already become known that the presidents will meet literally in the next week, that this is some kind of culmination of the negotiations that are now taking place at the parliamentary level, and at the level of representatives of the executive branch, and at the level of all those commissions , as far as I understand, in which both deputies of the State Duma and members of the Federation Council participate?

Vasily Duma: I wouldn't say that. I think that there will be just another meeting, at which some kind of pace will probably be outlined, some meeting plans, work plans, and something will need to be changed. Because there are many issues that are not resolved. And I think that not political, but production issues will be resolved.

Vitaly Portnikov: And what issues, if you think that have not been resolved... let's define the agenda and the issues that, in your opinion, need to be resolved.

Vasily Duma: Firstly, this is gas transportation, these are gas contracts and this is gas transportation. If there is a bad winter like last year... Do you remember what problems there were with gas?

Vitaly Portnikov: Naturally, there were. Because people almost froze, relatively speaking.

Vasily Duma: Certainly. And everything was clear that if gas was not supplied to Ukraine, the Ukrainians would simply take it away - that’s all, and people would not freeze. It's clear. So I think that will be the main issue. This is the first question.

And the second issue, I think, will still be the Black Sea Fleet. Because, if you remember, there have been a lot of problems over the past six months, starting with the lighthouse and so on. This is the second problem that will be solved.

But I think that there are also issues of quotas for agricultural products and so on. There are a lot of non-political, I emphasize, issues there. I think they will be the main ones at the meeting.

Vitaly Portnikov: If we say that non-political issues will be the main ones, then maybe it’s good for Russian-Ukrainian relations that everything has moved to a specific plane? It's impossible to solve global problems, relatively speaking, countries still look differently at the situation that arose in bilateral ideology. Well, let them at least solve some specific issues.

Vasily Duma: And I have always said that we need to solve specific issues, even push politics into the background. Because specific issues will improve the well-being of both people. And I think that's the most important thing. And somehow we all left...

You say that we look at things differently. No. The majority of people in Ukraine still look correctly - they look towards Russia. And there are some people who look to the West. Well, you certainly need to look to the West, but you also need to clearly understand that Russia is, after all, a strategic partner.

Vitaly Portnikov: Why part? This is almost half and half – judging by the results of the last parliamentary elections.

Vasily Duma: You understand...

Vitaly Portnikov: After all, it was possible to formalize a coalition here and there.

Vasily Duma: Well, I think that a coalition would not work both here and there. And I think that even in the western and central regions of Ukraine, people today look to Russia with hope.

Vitaly Portnikov: With hope for what?

Vasily Duma: That our friendly relations will be renewed.

Vitaly Portnikov: Do you think that friendly relations were interrupted, despite all the declarations of Viktor Yushchenko, Yulia Tymoshenko, and Yuri Yekhanurov that they want friendly relations? After all, in fact, the Russian side has largely interrupted this tradition. In many ways, words were heard from the Russian side that there could be no friendly relations. Maybe we should place responsibility not only on the Ukrainian, but also on the Russian political leadership?

Vasily Duma: Wait! Let's figure it out. I’m not saying that only Ukraine is to blame.

Vitaly Portnikov: And I’m not looking for the guilty at all.

Vasily Duma: By the way, I’m not looking for someone to blame either. The main thing is that they exist, these relationships.

But let's see, two years before that there were still some kind of relationships... maybe they were with some distortions, maybe they were...

Vitaly Portnikov: They were more personal, one might say, right?

Vasily Duma: You can say that, yes. But everyone benefited from this. From the point of view of the supply of metals, from the point of view of trade turnover, from the point of view of gas, from the point of view of oil refining, and so on - after all, everyone benefited. We've taken a different path now. Let it be a personal relationship. I said the same thing in Ukraine: “So what if they are personal. The main thing is that they bring benefits.”

Vitaly Portnikov: Created jobs...

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. Look what’s happening: people from Ukraine still come here to work.

Vitaly Portnikov: And the fact that such friendly relations are approaching... When the Russian concern wanted to buy Krivorozhstal, they offered huge money for it, would create jobs there, and Krivorozhstal was sold to Ukrainian owners for less money. I remembered a simple example.

Vasily Duma: Yes, right. But we say: two years ago, before the revolution.

Vitaly Portnikov: And this was before the revolution.

Vasily Duma: No, wait! It was a little different. And before the revolution, that was the beginning. And Krivorozhstal was sold when it arrived new president Yushchenko.

Vitaly Portnikov: A second time. But for the first time the Russian side participated there. Mr. Mordashov wanted to buy, he offered a lot of money. He offered half of the Russian economy for some kind of Krivorozhstal! Nobody wanted to sell. Nobody needed it.

Vasily Duma: No. I think that at that time people were already preparing for the re-election of the president, and there were probably some other undercurrents. This is the only way I can imagine it.

Vitaly Portnikov: Vasily Mikhailovich, in fact, we can talk about Russian-Ukrainian relations forever.

Vasily Duma: For centuries, yes.

Vitaly Portnikov: By the way, presidents once did this, I mean Yeltsin and Kuchma, Putin and Kuchma. They sat until the morning and at least decided something.

But I am very interested in what is happening in this regard (this is a new climate) with Russian Ukrainians. You know, about 17 years ago I was one of the founders of the Society of Ukrainian Culture in Moscow, the Slavutich Society - the first Ukrainian cultural organization. And then some events also happened in the sense of the life of Ukrainians in Russia, those citizens of Russia who still want to preserve some cultural roots, national roots here. Events are precisely in terms of institutionalization. And you are the first representative, one might say, of power structures in all this time who headed a Ukrainian organization in Russia. First of all, I would like to understand why, and I would like to understand what happened.

Vasily Duma: Interest Ask.

Vitaly Portnikov: The first question is why? And the second question is how?

Vasily Duma: I, too, 15 years ago organized a Ukrainian organization in Surgut.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, in Surgut everyone could go there...

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. But, unfortunately, when we organized this organization, only two or three people came to the meetings. Even when we made the Ukrainian Sunday school, no one sent their children there to study.

Vitaly Portnikov: That is, people didn’t want to because they had assimilated, right?

Vasily Duma: Yes, we assimilated. And that's not even the point. You know, they were even embarrassed to speak Ukrainian. That was some kind of situation.

Vitaly Portnikov: But in Moscow it was no longer like that. But also not in large quantities...

Vasily Duma: Well, some of us wanted it, but some didn’t want it. My grandson, for example, speaks Ukrainian - and there’s nothing wrong with that. True, he is also on French speaks.

Vitaly Portnikov: Does he speak Ukrainian to you?

Vasily Duma: Both with me and with my wife. But he speaks, however, French, and Russian, and English language, God bless. He is 7 years old.

Vitaly Portnikov: Here is such a European resident of Russia.

Vasily Duma: Yes. And if you want to learn Ukrainian language, then you don’t have to go to school, but you can learn it without school, if someone wants, if someone remembers their roots.

And why here... You know, I looked for a long time at this Ukrainian movement, which exists in Russia, after all, it is a large structure. Today we have branches in 58 regions. It's kind of like a party...

Vitaly Portnikov: You dangerously said “as a party.”

Vasily Duma: I dangerously said yes.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, say: “as a large public organization.”

Vasily Duma: Yes, as a large federal public organization. I wanted to say that by law it operates as a non-political federal organization.

And our organization didn’t even have its own office.

Vitaly Portnikov: At all?

Vasily Duma: At all. Imagine, the organization existed for 15 years, and I headed it for a year and a half, and there was nothing - no office, no telephones...

Vitaly Portnikov: I know you met in the late 80s - early 90s at the monument to Timiryazev.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right.

Vitaly Portnikov: Everyone knew about this that they had to come - and they speak Ukrainian there.

Vasily Duma: And now they meet at the Shevchenko monument.

Therefore, I was simply, truly, ashamed of Ukraine, of the Ukrainians who live here. And yet, according to the latest census, there are about 3.5 million of us, Ukrainians - these are the people who signed up...

Vitaly Portnikov: Here’s a paradox: there are millions of Ukrainians, but the organization unites thousands, in fact.

Vasily Duma: Certainly a paradox. I was at Moskovsky Komsomolets on the “direct line” by phone. People asked me the question: “How to sign up?” And I gave everyone the reception phone number. By the way, no one signed up. And they ask: “What does the organization do?” “Well, we have cultural ties, we have education. We don't have politics. Let us renew our Ukrainian culture, our language, whoever wants to.” Nobody wants to go. They ask: “What will I get for this?”

I understand this in such a way that Ukraine and Russia are the same... we speak the same language, so it is very difficult to consider that this is a diaspora. Now, if any other people who do not understand the Russian language, they can consider themselves a diaspora. But for us, this is, of course, problematic.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, maybe not a diaspora, or maybe just some kind of organization of people who simply want to preserve another culture?

Vasily Duma: Yes, I agree with you.

Vitaly Portnikov: Relatively speaking, what are Jews in Russia? Are they a diaspora or not a diaspora? These people have never lived in Israel. But they want to keep some others cultural traditions.

Vasily Duma: I just believe that in Jewish society this is not a diaspora, but rather an organization that wants to preserve some of its roots. I know a lot of guys who sing songs in Hebrew. Indeed, this is not a diaspora.

By the way, I probably called it a diaspora a little incorrectly. Because we want our organization to still be involved in culture and education, so that it really preserves its culture. This is how it turned out in life that we have two homelands - Russia and Ukraine.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, this happens to many people.

Vasily Duma: Yes, that's absolutely right. And I headed this organization only when the elections took place. Because she was also split here. Some were for some, and some were for others. Although we are all Russians. We have no right to interfere in the affairs of the state, where we do not have the right to vote, and so on.

Vitaly Portnikov: On the other hand, it’s natural. Normal political sympathies. Relatively speaking, Russians, even when elections are held in the United States, some like, for example, a Democrat, and others like a Republican. Well, okay...

Vasily Duma: That's right, I like it. But you can’t vote, you can’t impose your opinion, you can’t walk around New York with banners. Right? Russians don't walk around New York, right?

Vitaly Portnikov: They don't go. And here we went. Because it's very close.

Vasily Duma: And after that I realized that this is a very difficult question.

We also have a community. My task now is to unite everything and not split Ukraine, at least here. It’s also hard in Ukraine – it was somehow divided along the Dnieper all the time. And I wouldn’t want it to split in Russia.

Vitaly Portnikov: But fraternity, on the other hand, is natural. People from the same city, from the same region...

Vasily Duma: Well, it’s good, if he’s from one region, he’s from Kherson, then he also understands that his language is Ukrainian...

Vitaly Portnikov: Look, here I am from Kiev, but I studied in Dnepropetrovsk. And recently I talked with a young journalist who graduated from Dnepropetrovsk University, where I studied. And what's interesting. One faculty. He is very similar in his interests, and even in his manner of speaking to me, although I always believed that Dnepropetrovsk did not have much influence on me in this sense. But it turned out...

Vasily Duma: It’s not true, Dnepropetrovsk influences everyone. I have many friends there.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes. And that’s why it’s always very interesting for me to communicate with Dnipropetrovsk residents. Because this is youth, this is some kind of general view of the world (it will not be said in front of residents of other cities) and so on.

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly.

Vitaly Portnikov: And, naturally, people are then interested in each other. Well, what can I say...

Vasily Duma: But no one says no. We say that, yes, that's right. But the community is from Ukraine. Why should we be at odds? And before that they were always enemies. Fellowship and Ukrainian public organizations were enemies.

Vitaly Portnikov: Although this, in theory, can be integrated.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. And my task is to integrate. And now everyone who is recorded in the census is 3.5 million Ukrainians, they need to be united into our organization.

Vitaly Portnikov: You know it's not even Napoleonic plans and I would say...

Vasily Duma: Wait! But you always have to set yourself a task.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, let's try to set some more realistic goal to say what can be done today. Maybe we should at least open schools and somehow cooperate with the authorities? What can you do today?

Vasily Duma: Who says we don’t have schools? There are schools in Russia, and even at MGIMO they teach the Ukrainian language.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, at MGIMO it is studied by people who probably want to work at the Russian Embassy in Ukraine.

Vasily Duma: Fine. But it would be possible for a Russian to learn Ukrainian without MGIMO.

Vitaly Portnikov: Naturally.

Vasily Duma: And we had schools, and in Moscow there was a school - a Ukrainian school-lyceum. Unfortunately, there were no students there. They have now opened a magnificent Ukrainian library in Moscow. There is no such library anywhere. Unfortunately, very few people come there. And more Russians come than Ukrainians.

We brought about 1,200 people from all over Russia and organized a concert of amateur artistic performances of Ukrainian groups with Russians. We help a lot, we do things that would stimulate our Ukrainian culture.

But what to talk about Russian government when we have a misunderstanding of our Russian-Ukrainian relations from the point of view of educational schools? In Ukraine, Russian schools are closing, but here they are not opening. And I have repeatedly suggested that we set some kind of limit both there and here, so that these conversations do not occur.

It's the same with television, the same with radio. We can officially give away a Russian channel in Ukraine, and get a Ukrainian one in Russia.

Vitaly Portnikov: We can, yes. But in my Kyiv apartment, in my opinion, there are about five or six Russian channels.

Vasily Duma: I have five Ukrainian channels in Moscow.

Vitaly Portnikov: So it's a matter of desire.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. Therefore, there are no problems here.

Therefore, of course, we try to do a lot, but, as a rule, there is misunderstanding among the members of our organization. There are many people who misperceive, many people who want to talk, but do not want to do anything, first of all, they do not want to listen to anyone.

Vitaly Portnikov: There is a term “professional Ukrainian”. So he “works” as a Ukrainian, but does not want to do anything to really change the situation. This happens in everyone national association.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. It’s not that he doesn’t want to, but he wants to talk, but doesn’t want to do it.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, yes, I see. Because talking about problems is social, political capital...

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. And when we had our last congress in April last year, we had no congratulations from either Ukraine or Russia. And there was a congress of “Ukrainians of Russia”. This is a serious event. There were no congratulations from either the Ukrainian or Russian sides.

Vitaly Portnikov: And why?

Vasily Duma: But this is the attitude. When I was, in particular, at the Ukrainian forum in August in Kyiv, I said from the podium that the Ukrainian authorities love the diaspora (let’s use this word again) in Canada and America, but in Russia no one considers it a diaspora.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, because people who are in Canada and America, they, like, can lobby for Ukrainian interests.

Vasily Duma: And they, like, can’t do anything. Their children and grandchildren no longer speak Ukrainian. And they won't talk anymore. And our grandchildren and children can learn, because Ukraine is nearby, and we live here. They just don't perceive it. You see, there’s this mentality that it’s like we’re one country. Nobody accepts a Ukrainian, a Russian... There is no such diaspora. It takes some time for people to accept it.

Vitaly Portnikov: And it may take a very long time, but if relations between countries continue to remain close, there are no borders, there are no barriers, there is free movement, then how can a person, relatively speaking, listen to a Ukrainian song and come to Kyiv by train.

Vasily Duma: And I'm for it.

Vitaly Portnikov: The simple question here is that there should be a full-fledged Cultural Center, a full-fledged school, and there should be an understanding that people can live here who will preserve...

Vasily Duma: There is one more question. There is the All-Russian Exhibition Center. We don’t have any Ukrainian salon there.

Vitaly Portnikov: But there was always a Ukrainian pavilion, I remember.

Vasily Duma: There was a pavilion, yes. And today there is no money. There is a Cultural Center on Arbat, and again for this Cultural Center...

Vitaly Portnikov: In a wonderful place.

Vasily Duma: Yes, in a wonderful place - in the very center of Moscow. Instead of there being a Ukrainian restaurant there, there is McDonald's.

Vitaly Portnikov: Is it McDonald's?

Vasily Duma: Yes, sure.

Vitaly Portnikov: But there seems to be some Ukrainian restaurant nearby...

Vasily Duma: There is nothing. It's called "Khreshchatyk" and they sell sandwiches.

Vitaly Portnikov: In Moscow, anyway (for unknown reasons) until you bring Ukrainian chefs, no one will cook a full-fledged borscht or make dumplings with cherries.

Vasily Duma: Yes. But it can be done in the Ukrainian center?..

Vitaly Portnikov: Of course yes.

Vasily Duma: But he’s not there. And wherever you throw yourself... Today, any official who comes from Ukraine must stop somewhere. He must stay in the Ukrainian center. Create a press service there, create a normal one there... We recently did not have a Ukrainian newspaper in Moscow.

Vitaly Portnikov: But if there is a newspaper, how to distribute it?

Vasily Duma: And there is a newspaper... You know, I finance this newspaper. This newspaper is called “Ukrainian News”, which is published in a small circulation. We are currently distributing it throughout our organizations and federal structures. It’s just the people themselves who spread it. We are publishing it in Russian so that Russians know how they live in Ukraine and know the truth... well, not the truth, but they would know more truthful information and read it in Russian.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, one might even say that the information is complete. In any case, Ukraine is just one segment of the Russian information field, albeit the largest.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right.

Vitaly Portnikov: And it’s clear that they remember Ukraine... just yesterday, when it was the second anniversary of the “orange” revolution, and then they can forget again for some time.

Vasily Duma: By the way, I'm looking through all the funds now mass media– There is practically no information about Ukraine.

Vitaly Portnikov: Because it's not interesting.

Vasily Duma: Yes, that's absolutely right.

Vitaly Portnikov: Completely different processes are taking place...

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. And this is normal. And if there were Ukrainian newspapers and our media here, they, of course, would give different information. Well, full information about what's going on, life...

Vitaly Portnikov: This is a whole system - distribution. And again in Soviet time, I want to remind you that you could easily buy Ukrainian newspapers at many kiosks in Moscow. This is how all this was set up.

Vasily Duma: But nothing is lost in Russia. There are no problems with the distribution of newspapers today. Pay money and they will distribute it to you.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes. But completely different. You can’t finance everything, as I understand it, both the import of newspapers from Kyiv and the sale...

Vasily Duma: No, we print them here. We can print here, and we can reprint from other newspapers - there are no problems. The main thing is that there is mutual understanding. But this mutual understanding must be... first, this is on the Ukrainian side.

Vitaly Portnikov: Still need to start from Kyiv?

Vasily Duma: Yes, you need to start from Kyiv. You know, they always tell me: “Listen, why don’t you want to speak Ukrainian here?” And I ask the question: “Why do I come to Khreshchatyk and no one speaks Ukrainian?” Figure it out first...

Vitaly Portnikov: I can teach you. You walk along Khreshchatyk, speak Ukrainian with someone, and the third person who walks next to you will speak too. But as long as you don’t talk to him yourself. This is the recipe.

By the way, Sergei asks us: “Perhaps we need to intensify student and youth exchange between the two countries?”

Vasily Duma: And so he is. People learn both here and there. And there is an exchange, and there is a so-called quota, and it has always been: on Russian students- to Ukraine, in Ukrainian - to Russia. And in the summer we send children, schoolchildren, and students to Ukrainian camps.

But in our organization there is practically no work with young people. This is where we need to work with young people...

Vitaly Portnikov: And once upon a time there was a Ukrainian youth club.

Vasily Duma: It was a club for Dynamo Kyiv fans.

Vitaly Portnikov: No no. Before this it was not a fans club.

Vasily Duma: Well, maybe...

Vitaly Portnikov: Believe me. I was the coordinator of the Ukrainian youth club. I can tell you a lot.

Vasily Duma: I do not argue. But today simply nothing is being done.

Vitaly Portnikov: Tatyana asks: “Which region are you from in the Federation Council? And don’t Ukrainian affairs distract you from the problems of the region?” This question had to be asked.

Vasily Duma: I am a representative in the Federation Council from Kostroma, from the administration of the Kostroma region.

Vitaly Portnikov: Vasily Mikhailovich, how is your relationship with the administration of the Kostroma region carried out?

Vasily Duma: Very well. I work for the Kostroma region. I have been cooperating with the Kostroma region for a long time, about 10 years already. That is why I am a representative from the Kostroma region.

As for my work, it is a social burden. I'm not fully occupied. Therefore, I would burden myself with a couple more organizations.

Vitaly Portnikov: Let's listen to Valentin from Ryazan. Hello, Valentin.

Listener: Hello. There is a political divide between the west and east of Ukraine. Well, that corresponds to the split of politicians into those in power and the opposition, there is some correspondence. So, I'm interested to know whether it is possible that improving relations with Russia will reduce this confrontation? Thank you.

Vasily Duma: Well, I think that today in Ukraine the West is also inclined towards the East and towards the politics of the East, if you like. I think that there is no opposition there today. And common sense has triumphed, and improvements in relations with Russia are constantly felt.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yuri from Moscow. Hello, Yuri.

Listener: Hello. I would like to ask Vasily Duma where this public organization that he heads is located? I am Ukrainian myself, from the Cherkasy region, directly from Cherkassy, ​​I have been living in Moscow for eight years.

Vasily Duma: Beautiful city- Cherkasy.

Yuri, our organization is located in Khokhlovsky Lane. Phone: 931-91-75.

Vitaly Portnikov: Sergey from Armavir. Hello, Sergey.

Listener: Hello. Very interesting program today.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes I also like.

Listener: I say this because I have been to Ukraine - a very beautiful country. Now, if you take Kyiv, Odessa, Ivano-Frankovsk, Lvov... I'm calling from Armavir, Krasnodar region. Agriculture It's similar for us.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, of course it seems. And who, exactly, is in Krasnodar region did it start?..

Vasily Duma: Half of them are Ukrainians.

Listener: Yes, Zaporozhye Sich, as I heard. And just like you love lard, and we have lard here... I mean that the peoples are completely and absolutely related. Even in the villages of our region, the Ukrainian dialect is still preserved among people, and especially among the older generation. I say this to mean that countries need to be friends, to improve relations so that they are even better.

Vasily Duma: Believe me, this is why we live, and exist, and work, so that the two countries can be friends. Because today we don’t understand who came from whom... I believe that we will always be friends, no matter what the politicians are. Politicians come and go, but the people remain.

Vitaly Portnikov: “Give me the address or phone number of the Ukrainian library,” writes Alexey.

Vasily Duma: Phone: 931-91-75. And they will tell you the address there.

Vitaly Portnikov: The Ukrainian library is located at the Rizhskaya metro station, as far as I remember.

Vasily Duma: Yes. I just don’t remember the phone number right now. But by calling the phone number I gave, they will provide all the information. This is the reception area.

Vitaly Portnikov: Boris Petrovich from Moscow. Hello, Boris Petrovich.

Listener: Good evening. I would like to object to your guest’s point of view that Ukraine should strive for rapprochement with Russia. And 350 years have been saying that in the course of this interaction Ukraine has only lost, and continues to lose. Do you need proof? Please.

Vitaly Portnikov: Just briefly, because there is a lot of evidence.

Listener: Let's say the most powerful thing is science. There was a Kiev-Mohyla Academy. Where was Moscow then? Currently, the ratio of scientific knowledge... the security of each citizen in Ukraine is two times lower than in Russia.

Vitaly Portnikov: I wouldn't do that...

Listener: Statistics show this.

Vasily Duma: You know, I will answer this question for you. I personally don't think so. We can't be enemies of our neighbors, right? And now I wouldn’t rush into the story of who destroyed something and where. If we remember and take revenge for the fact that someone has harmed someone, then we will not come to anything good. We must live in today's realities. And we must, of course, remember history, and remember what happened, and draw conclusions from it.

Vitaly Portnikov: Well, in any case, Boris Petrovich, in my opinion, still had the historical background in mind, but you are talking about what is happening today. After all European countries showed that only after understanding history can we even talk about integration.

Vasily Duma: Right. But we should not get hung up and look only for the bad. If we look only for the bad, we will never understand history.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes, of course. This is actually what I'm talking about. I give this example, that France and Germany could present much more claims to each other than Russia to Ukraine...

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. And any country is the same if you look at history. Because history is also written differently.

Vitaly Portnikov: I would like to ask you about the last forum of Ukrainians, which took place in Kyiv. And you were elected deputy chairman of the Ukrainian World Coordination Council. These are the responsibilities of a person who...

Vasily Duma: We had two... we had a forum of Ukrainians, and they elected a chairman. And then the chairman already assembled the Council, and the Council elected two deputies. One deputy oversees the West, and the other oversees the East.

Vitaly Portnikov: But the West and the East are not Ukraine, right?

Vasily Duma: In the world, yes.

Vitaly Portnikov: And you are in charge of the East, right?

Vasily Duma: Yes, East. I am in charge of the CIS. Everything that concerns the CIS - all CIS diasporas, all CIS public organizations...

Vitaly Portnikov: How strong are Ukrainian organizations in other CIS countries? In Kazakhstan, for example, there are many Ukrainians.

Vasily Duma: Yes, there are two strong organizations. Just in Kazakhstan, a lot of people and businesses joined the organization. In Russia, unfortunately, this is not the case. But there is, and she is one of the strong ones. And so in every former republic Soviet Union there are such organizations.

Vitaly Portnikov: Sergey from Moscow. Hello, Sergey.

Listener: Good evening. I would like to ask this question. Previously, there was such a form as cultural exchange between cities. For example, is it possible to organize the Days of Kyiv in Moscow or the Days of Moscow in Kyiv with your participation? This can probably be done in other cities as well.

Vasily Duma: Yes, Sergey, we are organizing it. True, the Days of Kyiv in Moscow are a large-scale, expensive event. And we take out ensembles, we take out students. We are engaged in such an exchange. And I think that if there were a federal program in both countries (because this is indeed an expensive undertaking), then the situation could somehow be improved.

Vitaly Portnikov: And I would like to talk to you about guest workers. They obviously don’t come to Ukrainian organizations. But there are hundreds of thousands of them. And their problems are problems that, in principle, are probably paramount for many residents of Ukraine itself.

Vasily Duma: Yes, definitely. It is a pity, of course, that these people do not work in their homeland, but come to work in other countries.

Vitaly Portnikov: But this is already a fact.

Vasily Duma: Yes, it's a fact. And a lot of people work in Russia, and especially in the Moscow region. And there is, of course, a big problem. And the ambassador and I talked about this topic. We will need to create a structure that would deal with all legal options. If you remember, 10 years ago you couldn’t even send transfers. This question is with translations, with banking systems decided on his own. People realized that this can be done. But today this issue needs to be resolved legally. Indeed, there is such a problem, and the problem is serious.

Vitaly Portnikov: Moreover, you, as a legislator, understand that changes in the migration regime will begin in January - this is the law that you, in fact...

Vasily Duma: ...which we will approve of, yes. And I understand that today it is necessary to solve this problem. But it will have to be resolved at the interstate level. I didn’t mean that we would approve it, but I meant that there are quotas now...

Vitaly Portnikov: That is, people will, of course, have new problems.

Vasily Duma: Yes, new problems.

Vitaly Portnikov: But I meant that the Ukrainian organizations themselves, how can they become... not only accessible, but known to these people. After all, these people really often have nowhere to turn. They, relatively speaking, do not trust the authorities in the host country (and this applies not only to Russia). They are afraid to go to the embassy because they might break the law...

Vasily Duma: I just told you what we want to do with the embassy...

Vitaly Portnikov: Together?

Vasily Duma: ...yes, so that it would be a sign of the embassy, ​​and the organization would be at the embassy, ​​at our organization. Then people will not be afraid, but will know where to go. You can always come to the embassy, ​​well, not to the embassy itself, so that they don’t get caught, as you put it, but so that they end up in an organization that can give them... But if he lives and works somewhere in the Moscow region, then he doesn’t even go to Moscow. If someone offends them there, they don’t even know where to turn, they don’t even have telephone numbers.

Vitaly Portnikov: People live in such an airless space, essentially.

Vasily Duma: Yes, sure.

Vitaly Portnikov: And if we talk about the fact that many of these people live for years, they can stay... Ukraine and Portugal somehow solved this problem. They legalized these people there and provided them with residence permits.

Vasily Duma: Yes. But Ukraine and Italy have not decided. This is how many Ukrainians work in Italy... This problem has not yet been resolved. And Russia has not yet decided.

I always think that everyone treated it like one country.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes. “So why bother fooling around?...”

Vasily Duma: Yes. And very little time passed when we separated, that in all brains, in mentality, this is one country. And there are no problems here. If it’s in Italy, then it’s a problem, roughly speaking. Portugal has a problem. But there is no problem with Russia. That's why we have such a problem.

Vitaly Portnikov: Vladimir from Saratov region. Hello, Vladimir.

Listener: Hello. One gets the impression that the so-called concrete affairs of the Russian diaspora are quite meaningless if our Ukrainian Fatherland itself is crawling into the wrong hands. It doesn’t matter whose reasons - European, Russian, African... If there is no Fatherland, then we are worthless.

And in this regard, I want to ask a specific question. What documents need to be submitted to the Ukrainian consulate to obtain the status of a foreign Ukrainian? Thank you.

Vitaly Portnikov: This, by the way, is a question that can be diplomatic...

Vasily Duma: I don't know what documents are needed for this. I don't work at the embassy.

Vitaly Portnikov: We will invite the Consul General here and talk to him about this.

Vasily Duma: Yes, you can invite and talk. In principle, you can call the phone number that I mentioned, and they will give you all the advice: what documents are needed.

As for the fact that the country called “Ukraine” will spread, I think that, no, it will not spread anywhere. This big country, 44 million people live there.

Vitaly Portnikov: And no one expresses any particular desire to crawl away, right?

Vasily Duma: Neither the ruling elites nor the business elites in Ukraine, they do not want to spread apart. On the contrary, they all want to be together.

Vitaly Portnikov: It seems to me that people living in Russia underestimate this... Because sometimes there is strength in diversity. And when we're talking about about Russia, then everyone understands this. And when it comes to Ukraine, it seems that everything should immediately fall apart somewhere.

Vasily Duma: I don't think this will happen.

Vitaly Portnikov: I would like to ask you about the status of foreign Ukrainians. Does it even make sense? This is the status that is provided precisely for such people as Russian citizens of Ukrainian origin who were born in Ukraine. Once upon a time there was even a forum, in my opinion, for people from Ukraine.

Vasily Duma: Well, people from Ukraine are a completely different name for people.

I think that everyone who lives here took Russian citizenship a long time ago and became citizens of Russia. And those who didn’t want to, accepted Ukrainian citizenship. And this was a conscious decision, no one pushed anyone. I don’t know what it looks like, but I wouldn’t invent anything now.

Vitaly Portnikov: Are there such cases when people accept Ukrainian citizenship and remain to live in Russia?

Vasily Duma: There are a lot of cases. And there are no problems. They just have to live according to our laws, according to Russian ones - and that’s all, from the point of view of the migration service and so on. I don’t see anything wrong here - to be a citizen of Russia, to love Russia and to love Ukraine.

Vitaly Portnikov: Here Vladimir from Lyubertsy writes: “What to do with the Russian language in Ukraine? Everyone, as one, promises to make him second before the elections state language, and then everything stalls. At least make it official."

Vasily Duma: Vladimir, you are great! A most wonderful question. I also always say on this topic that the issue of the Russian language in Ukraine is relevant only before the elections. And the rest of the time people are silent. And everyone speaks Russian. Believe me, in Ukraine people speak Russian more than Ukrainian.

Vitaly Portnikov: Is this good or bad?

Vasily Duma: I think people are already used to it. Here are the children who go to kindergartens and schools, they speak Ukrainian. And some time will pass... and this is an inevitable process. The process of the collapse of the Soviet Union, it will not last one or two years, 15 years, it will last, unfortunately, for a very long time. That's why time will pass– and another elite will arise on its own, speaking its own language.

Vitaly Portnikov: “My mother is Ukrainian, my father is Russian, my wife is German. And I have a daughter. Who am I and my daughter’s nationality?” asks Alexey.

Vasily Duma: I think Ukrainians.

Vitaly Portnikov: This, by the way, is a problem not only for Alexey, but also for many people who were born in mixed marriages, and which do not have clear identification.

Vasily Duma: I don't see a problem here. Children must grow up to 18-20 years old, determine their nationality - and that’s it. What's the problem here?

Vitaly Portnikov: You are just a lucky person - you can easily determine your nationality, easily determine your profession. But not everyone can do this.

Vasily Duma: I didn't say that. Everyone must decide for themselves what is nice for them – to be Russian or Ukrainian.

Vitaly Portnikov: And I want to ask you a question about your main specialty, as a person involved in the fuel and energy complex. Do you think that Ukrainian-Russian conflicts will be resolved at all? energy problems Was it ever so civilized that it was at least clear who was buying for what and from whom?

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly.

Vitaly Portnikov: How?

Vasily Duma: You asked me, as I understand it, about gas and the Rosukrenergo company, right?

Vitaly Portnikov: Not necessary. "Rosukrenergo" is just one illustration of the process...

Vasily Duma: And I will answer this question very briefly. Thank God that gas today is not at world prices for Ukraine. God bless which company gets it. And the main thing is that this price today is not 260-280 dollars. And I think that when we get to the point where there is a world price, then all this will be resolved, there will be no other companies.

Vitaly Portnikov: Artem from St. Petersburg. Hello, Artem.

Listener: Hello. I have two questions. This is your point of view, than, say, an English James Bond with the right to kill, who is promoted and proud of, he is better than, say, the Ukrainian Kuchma or the Syrian, Russian, American, Israeli, well, any James Bond, with the same right to kill? Who is being shown a bad example in this? And how to deal with this?

Vitaly Portnikov: Explain, Artem. I don’t think Vasily Mikhailovich understood the question.

Listener: Now a minister was killed in Syria...

Vitaly Portnikov: Pierre Gemayel was killed in Lebanon. He was actually killed, it wasn’t in the movies.

Listener: But in England there are the same killers... here's James Bond, let's say he's the same killer, with the right to kill.

Vitaly Portnikov: James Bond is the same literary hero. And Pierre Gemayel is a real person, he has a mother, a father...

Vasily Duma: Kuchma is also real.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes, Kuchma is also a living person.

Listener: But there are real agents like these with the right to kill - both in England and...

Vasily Duma: We don't know them.

Vitaly Portnikov: Artem, ask a second question.

Listener: How do you view President Putin? This is also, perhaps, a Russian James Bond with the right to kill, or maybe a kind, fluffy Vladimir Vladimirovich...

Vasily Duma: Artem, look at how our country lives. Well, why are you saying this?!

Vitaly Portnikov: But in any case, I believe that comparing a literary image and a living president is always...

Vasily Duma: First of all, this is our president. And it's not very good to say that.

Vitaly Portnikov: This is also always a problem, as the person approached carefully... But, nevertheless, this problem, by the way, is more Ukrainian than Russian. There is no respect for the presidential institution in Ukraine to a much greater extent than in Russia.

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly. The people elected the president, and we must respect him.

Vitaly Portnikov: In order for a president to be respected, he must probably be elected in such a way that there is no doubt about the purity of the election.

Vasily Duma: You know, Vitaly, you can talk in different ways. When elections are held, those who lost always say: “They counted incorrectly.” You can also say: “You counted incorrectly. Let's recount." Well, if we constantly don't trust all of this, then we'll simply never elect anyone.

Vitaly Portnikov: Vladimir from Lyubertsy. Hello, Vladimir.

Listener: Hello. Last year, active fuss began regarding the introduction of visas for travel to Russia and Ukraine (or Ukraine, whatever). And I'm in yours live I asked the Ukrainian ambassador. He replied. I say: “Whose initiative?” I thought that again these guys were like crests. He says: “No, this is your initiative, these are your officials.”

Vitaly Portnikov: I don’t remember... Was the Ukrainian ambassador on air? There was no ambassador. There was a consul general, I remember.

Listener: Yes Yes.

Vitaly Portnikov: But there was no ambassador. I know exactly what's going on here, Vladimir.

Listener: Well done! Then you definitely remember that I asked this question.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes I remember. But there are no visas. What are you doing?..

Listener: No. Here's the thing. So that this comrade from the Federation Council carefully monitors that the Duma does not smuggle through this visa again, our Duma.

Vasily Duma: This is not within the competence of the Duma and not within the competence of the Federation Council. We, of course, are watching and fighting to prevent this from happening. I think that by definition there cannot be a visa regime between Ukraine and Russia. I think this is unrealistic.

Vitaly Portnikov: But the current regime that exists now is quite comfortable for citizens of both countries. And these three months without registration...

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly.

Vitaly Portnikov: Can he survive?

Vasily Duma: We must say thank you to our Russian president for doing this.

Vitaly Portnikov: By the way, remember, when this was introduced, everyone believed that this was some kind of election step related...

Vasily Duma: Because, indeed, it could have been done a little earlier or a little later. But practically nothing would change. You see, for every movement, for every resolution or decree of the president, you can find criticism - both positive and negative. But it was still done well for the people.

Vitaly Portnikov: This, by the way, is an example of the fact that if there is public opinion, it is obvious that people have a desire to move around calmly...

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly. Come for three months, yes.

Vitaly Portnikov: And now Russia and Ukraine, by the way, are signing an agreement on readmission, that is, on the return of migrants. And this agreement, in my opinion, has been prepared for 15 years, and now it will be put into effect...

Vasily Duma: Yes, we have many problems - both the border problem and the watershed problem. This is all clear. It so happened that the Soviet Union collapsed. Naturally, there are some problems that cannot be solved in one day, in one year, or even in 10 years.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes. And, probably, people do not have a clear idea that this could be, relatively speaking, the kind of border that existed in the Soviet Union.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. Once we came with a delegation to Ukraine, and there... the members of the Ukrainian delegation had more Russian surnames than ours, and the Russian delegation had more Ukrainian surnames. That's all. Here is the answer to your question.

Vitaly Portnikov: Efim from Moscow. Hello, Efim.

Listener: Good evening. I have a question for your guest (if you can call him a guest).

Vitaly Portnikov: Efim, why don’t you want to call him a guest?

Listener: Because all his speeches, so to speak, are purely pro-Russian.

Vitaly Portnikov: He is also a citizen of the Russian Federation, a member of parliament.

Listener: Especially. But I don’t know what he has to do with Ukraine, other than his origin.

Vitaly Portnikov: Wait! My guest leads the Ukrainians of Russia, that is, in fact, citizens of Russia, who...

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly. And I was also born in Russia, Efim, I am Russian.

Listener: I understand. But it was like that before: the first secretary was Russian, the second secretary was Ukrainian. So there's nothing surprising here.

But that's not what I'm talking about. This is what interests me. I was in the center of Moscow not so long ago, and there was a man selling books from his hands. I approached and tried to buy. I hear a policeman approach. I showed him my passport. I'm a Muscovite. And this man showed his passport and said: “I’m from Togliatti.” The policeman says: “Where is the train ticket?” He began to make excuses: “I just arrived...”. How can this be explained in connection with the fact that Ukrainians can come freely for three months without presenting a ticket? This is the first question.

And the second question. Was Yushchenko poisoned, was there an attempt at poisoning? These are the questions for your guest.

Vitaly Portnikov: I will address the question of Yushchenko’s poisoning, since the guest does not work at the Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine.

Vasily Duma: Undoubtedly. I don't know. I know the same as you.

And as for tickets... There is a decree from Luzhkov. This is due to the large migration of people to Moscow. That’s why police officers from out of town ask when they arrived...

Vitaly Portnikov: But, in my opinion, no administrative measures are expected.

Vasily Duma: There are no administrative measures.

Vitaly Portnikov: And a citizen of Ukraine can show his migration card - and there is a mark there...

Vasily Duma: ...when he arrived and when he left. As for out-of-towners, they must show their tickets... well, they shouldn’t. But there will be no punishment for this.

Vitaly Portnikov: It seems to me that the policeman was just interested.

Vasily Duma: He was wondering what kind of books they were.

Vitaly Portnikov: No, I think we can say that there is also a work permit. Without a work permit, a person cannot...

Vasily Duma: But he's Russian, he can...

Vitaly Portnikov: But selling something in Moscow...

Vasily Duma: This is not a work activity. This is business.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes, it's completely different.

Vasily Duma: And these are taxes and so on.

Vitaly Portnikov: But Ukrainians also cannot, dear Efim, walk around any Russian city without having legal documents for their stay.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right.

Vitaly Portnikov: Another thing is that maybe no one asks for documents...

Vasily Duma: Because he looks like a Russian.

Vitaly Portnikov: What you are saying is, by the way, also dangerous. What good is it that they ask for documents from people who don’t look like someone?.. And who doesn’t look like?..

Vasily Duma: Yes, I agree.

Vitaly Portnikov: Half of your Federation Council members, one might say, do not look like Russians.

Vasily Duma: Everyone is alike.

Vitaly Portnikov: By the way, this is how it will be in the markets now. Here's the question. With us, visiting people can no longer trade - people from Crimea or from the Donetsk region, they also will not be able to bring their agricultural products today, it turns out that Russian market.

Vasily Duma: Well, first we need to learn how to get our Russians to bring their products. And I think that as they brought, they will continue to bring. And they trade everywhere... Ukrainians trade in the markets.

Vitaly Portnikov: Because we know that the best fruits, early fruits, are brought from Crimea by Ukrainian citizens.

Vasily Duma: Absolutely right. Another thing is that they are imported, but perhaps they are not sold.

Vitaly Portnikov: Yes, that's a different question. Agree.

Thank you, Vasily Mikhailovich, for coming to us and participating in this program.

We will monitor how Ukrainian life develops in Russia...

Vasily Duma: Not Ukrainian, but the life of Ukrainian Russians.

Vitaly Portnikov: ...the life of Ukrainian Russians in the Russian Federation.